A conversation with Pierre

Pierre: The Catholic hierarchy tends to squash anything new, i.e., new thinking.
Den: They test all spirits. They judge by their fruit. How can you expect the hierarchy to accept new things without doing the former?Discernment needs time. That is the vocation of the institutional church. But, the charismatic church fearlessly treads all possibilities of renewal. Where do you belong? Go ahead, fulfill your vocation.

Pierre: I don't understand this question. I never said I expected the hierarchy to accept new things without looking at the fruits.The culture of Catholicism is hostile to new thinking. Many persons have been tortured, killed, dispossessed, ruined, harassed, calumnied by both the institution and by individual Catholics because someone said something new. This evidently historical fact signals to me that cultural change is in order in Catholicism, and most belatedly. At the least, there should be safe fora sanctioned by the Catholic church itself where Catholics can indeed investigate new thinking. As it is, the Catholic church is a place where to be in the good graces of the hierarchy, you should not think except as a parrot. (An unfortunate metaphor, by the way, since parrots are very intelligent and sensitive creatures, and not all are capable mimics.)

Den: Pierre, you have pointed at the dirt of the pilgrim church very well. You deserve a medal for that. The people involved should convert. But, to single out catholicism seems bias and definitely incorrect.

As member of the catholic church, that is not my experience. Laymen are encouraged to participate in different fields in order to be leaven in their respective cell of environment. The problem with new thinking is because they are new. And new as they are need to be tested.

The problem with thinker of new things, myself included, is our inability to communicate well our visions whether they are inline with the truth held by the institutional church. Most of the time our impatience comes in between thus hinders the flow of communication. I agree that all old violent ways of resolving conflicts must end. This is a perennial struggle. Even as a father, it is my inner struggle to follow or not the ways of my parents in dealing with my children now. Shall I use the stick to discipline them or not? To some the stick was effective, to others it wasn't.

Pierre: I did not single out Catholicism to the exclusion of other religions. I cited Catholicism. And to cite Catholicism is not to exclude other religions.

Den: I stand corrected. Thanks

Pierre: Dear Den:I would like you to know I appreciate the integrity of your responses, at least currently. I hope you understand why I am plainspoken, conveying the impression of being curt. I am not interested in getting "involved emotionally" with anyone in these discussion groups. I am mainly interested in exploring ideas. Friendship, warmth, sympathy, etc.--I have no currency in these denominations in yahoo groups, except when I believe it is only but right to express them, e.g., when our moderator is ill.

Den: Thanks, Pierre. I feel flattered with such comment especillay when it comes from someone like you. I believe we are both seeking for reasonable arguments on issues. If our motive is only for that and not to convince others to transfer on our side, it won't be hard to accept our mistakes and the inferiority of our arguments.